Retailers are meeting in New York next week, no doubt to console each other and share new war stories.

Mostly they'll be talking about shoppers.

The industry is already planning next Christmas, and most store operators expect 2009 to be another difficult year.

While the prospect of spending a third consecutive December in a recession is daunting for retailers, merchants are also debating whether the new shopping attitudes are here to stay.

Whenever the economy recovers, "will everything go back the way it was before, or is there a more permanent shift in attitude?" asked Myron "Mike" Ullman, chairman and chief executive of Plano-based J.C. Penney Co. "I think that's a good debate."

A growing number of consumers are spending less, saving more and paying down debt.

That combination produced the worst holiday shopping season in decades.

"Treasure-hunting shoppers" have always been among us, said Michael Silverstein, a senior partner at the Boston Consulting Group and author of Treasure Hunt: Inside the Mind of the New Consumer and Trading Up: The New American Luxury. "The lesson was for the full-price shoppers. They learned about markups and markdowns."

The U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007 and tighter credit, more layoffs and shrunken personal wealth have traumatized households.

Up until last year, luxury was recession-proof, because "recessions were borne by middle- and lower-income households," Silverstein said. This time, it engulfed even higher-income families.

"I don't believe we will have a permanent change," he said. "But we will have a shift in attitude for some time. We have ebbs and flows on conspicuous consumption. It is at an ebb now."

About 18,000 retailing executives and suppliers will be attending the annual meeting of the industry's largest trade organization, the National Retailer Federation, which begins Sunday.

Lately, this group has stepped up its lobbying efforts, asking Congress to sponsor and pay for three sales tax holidays this year on everything from vehicles to vacuum cleaners. They promise such events will create the excitement that will produce the shoppers to stimulate the economy.

John Phee, principal in the Dallas office of consulting firm A.T. Kearney, said now is the time that retailers should rethink their ways and get to know their customers better before the economy turns around.

"Are they engendering loyalty for better times with the level of service they're offering now?" Phee said. "With the pace of store closings we're having now, should they build stores again or find ways to sell more efficiently online?"

At a Johnson & Murphy store in Frisco recently, Phee said he bought a second pair of shoes because the associate waiting on him knew they were online for $30 cheaper and guaranteed they would be at his home in 48 hours.

"I haven't shopped at a Johnson & Murphy store in years, but I'm sure I'll buy my next five pairs of shoes there," he said.

Most forecasts predict more retailer bankruptcies and store closings in 2009.

Easy credit that accelerated shopping center development has left many cities with too much retail space and set up the industry for some "creative destruction," Ullman said. "Space that doesn't resonate with shoppers or property that can be supported for some other reason will come out."

While the economy is creating the destruction this time, competition from Wal-Mart Stores Inc. has forced massive change on the industry over the past couple of decades as it became the world's largest retailer.

Wal-Mart CEO Lee Scott is the keynote speaker Monday. He'll be taking questions from other retailers in the audience.

Who's cutthroat now? Power has shifted to the consumer. Being able to stand in front of a product and search the price at nearby competitors on a smart phone is amazing.

Gift cards have limits. Shoppers turned to cash or merchandise instead of loaded plastic as they worried that retailers might go out of business, or they found gifts at prices they couldn't pass up.

No. 2's try harder, but that isn't always enough. Don't believe it? Ask KB Toys and Circuit City, both of which have found themselves in bankruptcy court.

Parents will sacrifice. Toys R Us' U.S. division sales eked out a 1.9 percent increase in December – one of the few gainers this season.

Maybe layaway belongs in the 1970s. Sears trumpeted the pre-credit-card concept of taking merchandise home when it's paid for at its Sears and Kmart stores. December same-store sales fell 12.8 percent at Sears and declined 1.1 percent at Kmart.

Even the pickiest fashionistas know how to save a buck. Luxury is bleeding buckets because full-price selling went out the window with wealth.

Americans do have self-control chromosomes. Much of the decline in spending was totally by choice. Shoppers with no household job losses were still cutting back.

How low can they go? We saw retailers ready to move merchandise. They pulled out the paring knife and kept slashing prices like never before.

Going out of business sales aren't always what they seem. In this promotional environment, liquidation sales didn't always measure up.

Everyone has a price. "80 percent off, that's almost free," said Irving resident Candice Clark, shopping at Kohl's in Valley Ranch the day after Christmas.

Maria Halkias